October 23, 2013

Three Pieces of Wisdom

By Nina E.

female submission-polyamory-bisexuality

Photography by Don Walthrop | donwalthropphotography.com

A while ago a poster in our forums started a thread about “Wise Women.” She provided a web page example posted on a religious outreach site that offered marriage counseling and advice. I was struck by the plenitude of wisdom on that web page and thought a Humbled Females version of such basic truths would be useful. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that this site’s key principle, humbleness, is very much akin to what that web page was calling wisdom.

It’s very interesting how these two terms are so often synonymous, not just for women wanting to serve men but for anyone who seeks to improve themselves or who seeks something greater than themselves. Humility or humbleness goes hand-in-hand with traits such as a willingness to learn—particularly from one’s mistakes, open-mindedness, understanding, being alert to one’s surroundings and the people in them, and being self-critical in order to become self-knowing. All of these are traits traditionally associated with wisdom. The converse is also true: with egotism, narcissism, vanity, and overweening self-regard so often comes perceptual blindness, stupidity, vulnerability to flattery, and ignorance of what is actually going on around oneself or, even worse, inside oneself.

This article samples a few of the core passages from the religious website’s page that struck me as particularly relevant to those who visit Humbled Females and then expands upon them a bit. Before beginning, it may be important to reiterate that Humbled Females is secular and does not endorse any particular religion but should we find valuable information in a religious source we won’t hesitate to use it. There are, however, some significant differences between that website’s approach and the approach taken here and I’d like to lay these out at the beginning before displaying its treasures.

First, the website referred to believes that a woman obeying a man is a mandate from a deity. At Humbled Females, we believe more that this is the natural way women and men have lived together and successfully cooperated with each other for hundreds of thousands of years. Thus, we feel natural and at home when we relate to the opposite sex in these ways.

A humbled female doesn’t take anything for granted. Think about this for a second. It’s very easy to pass over this one, to read it, nod in half-asleep agreement or even assert to oneself, “I never take anything for granted in my relationship. It’s a basic tenet that I don’t, after all.” I was tempted to do that, too, but rather than passing it over, I decided to reflect upon it a little deeper.

Secondly, the religious website ministers to a specific local audience, an audience that I expect is not well-represented on Humbled Females. As part of this, it tends to apologize for weaknesses in men and, in some cases, even assumes male weakness as a base principle, which is not something endorsed here at all! Nevertheless, when one overlooks the passages written specifically to that audience, a lot of insight into male-led relationships and what makes them work can be gleaned.

One other important principle distinguishes the Humbled Females approach from that of the other site. We automatically assume that men and women coming to Humbled Females are intensely interested in male-led relationships and that the women who spend time here are at least partially humbled. We assume such women have done the hard work on themselves that is necessary to approach a man or a male-led relationship with the appropriate spirit: well aware of personal faults, self-effacing, quiet, narcissism and self-obsession in check, interested in a man’s life, mind and world far more than their own lives, minds, and worlds. The religious site, on the other hand, works with confused and unhappy couples, people conditioned to blindly accept egalitarian marriages in which a humbled attitude in a woman was not ever fostered or encouraged. From the things the site authors let slip between the lines, many of these relationships are a mess, with the common modern feminism myths deeply entrenched and the female rankly disobedient, hostile toward, and scornful of her male, despite her religious beliefs which encourage an opposite attitude. Humbled Females is not geared toward individuals with such unenlightened attitudes nor do we believe such marriages can necessarily be saved. If the humble spirit isn’t already there in the woman’s heart and if the need for that spirit is not already understood by her, our view is that very little—if any—progress can be made.

A humbled female doesn’t take anything for granted.

Think about this for a second. It’s very easy to pass over this one, to read it, nod in half-asleep agreement or even assert to oneself, “I never take anything for granted in my relationship. It’s a basic tenet that I don’t, after all.” I was tempted to do that, too, but rather than passing it over, I decided to reflect upon it a little deeper. The statement can be read in a couple of ways. For those humbled females who are not living as slaves, the statement is a gentle reminder of something that is easy to forget: that all the good in our lives, our homes that keep us safe and warm, our children, our lovely clothes and makeup, our hobbies and passions that we pursue, our careers, our leisure time, our relationships with friends and family, and, most of all, our core happiness and contentment over it all comes from being second-in-command to the captain who runs our domestic ship and makes everything work out right. Without that basic relationship in place, we’d be unhappy and restless and this would significantly color our appreciation for other experiences, even good experiences. When a woman who needs to be commanded, directed, or led to a particular degree isn’t, nothing feels right, even if her life is seemingly free of strife. When she is, everything feels right at the core of things and she is able to face life’s difficulties much easier.

Perhaps some of us work and bring in money that buys the physical things. But would those things mean anything to us if there wasn’t a male ruling over us and, through his wise decisions (that don’t always go our way), taking care of the benefit and well-being of all members of the household? It’s quite easy when a humbled female is in a good and satisfying situation to forget that this good comes from somewhere—from someone, more specifically—and that if he were to suddenly disappear from life, her world would be ashes. When a female starts to take her good fortune, and particularly, her man, for granted, she frequently opens the door to discontent, restlessness, greed for more. When that happens she starts to feel that she deserves more rights, more lovely possessions, more leisure time, even more say in the decision-making process. Or perhaps her eye starts to wander and she begins to imagine how happy she’d be with a different sort of man. A humbled female can start to ruin her own happiness and that of those around her by forgetting that this happiness is largely based on one thing: pleasing and being subservient to the male in her life. She forgets how thankful she should be for that man because she has started to take him for granted.

It can be interesting to ask oneself, “Do I really take nothing for granted?” What would your answer be? Going into specifics can be even more interesting: “Don’t I expect to always have a warm bed or other place to sleep at night if I am in my home?” “Don’t I expect a certain amount of sleep most nights?” “Don’t I take for granted that I won’t be forced to go out in chilly zero-degree weather without clothes or in skimpy summer clothes?” “Don’t I assume the man who controls me won’t humiliate me in front of those who shouldn’t know about our relationship?” “Don’t I take my daily meals, my morning routine, my weekly TV series that I must watch, perhaps a daily shower, regular time on the Internet or something similar to these things for granted?” “Even if I intellectually understand that nothing stays the same, don’t I emotionally assume all of this will always be there?”

For those of us in more rigid relationships these are particularly relevant questions to ask as we have little or no right to assume anything in our lives is a given or that it is always going to be there. But we seem as likely as our freer sisters to unconsciously make such assumptions. Just this morning, for example, my Master eliminated my morning breakfast/supplement-taking ritual. I was required to do chores, work out in the gym, and start this article without the energy-boosting substances of breakfast. It was quite hard. I was not only disappointed and hungry but became momentarily convinced that I could not think without a cup of coffee in me! As you can see from the above text, I was able to think despite a growling tummy and feeling like my brain wasn’t running on all cylinders. I had simply taken my morning routine for granted. It’s impossible to be ever-vigilant, to watch out for creeping complacency at all times. But I think most women can give themselves regular reminders so that they don’t cozily take all they have as a given, as something that will always be there. Some of us are lucky enough to have men who will remind us, like my Master did this morning, of what we take for granted. But this is largely a job that a humbled female has to do in her own head. It pays great dividends to do so, as one’s happiness and contentment increase as a result, and the common forms of discontent and ungratefulness are less likely to take root in one’s mind.

It’s worth mentioning that this job is never complete. No matter how much we may see the need intellectually to never take anything for granted, it’s still going to happen, particularly if our men treat us kindly and decently. I’ve personally never gotten rid of this tendency, and I don’t think it’s the sort of thing you can permanently eradicate. But it is the sort of thing one can keep a close eye out for and when a humbled female catches herself in the act of taking something for granted or, in the case of a slave, desiring or demanding more than is her due, she can often stop the thoughts or behavior.

A humbled female understands that her dominant man’s need to be honored is not based on his performance but on his position.

It is a good thing to be drawn to a man initially because of his greatness, because of certain qualities or ways of behaving and communicating that we intensely admire in him. But once a humbled female has agreed to be his and his alone, and particularly once she starts to live intimately with him and he relaxes around her and shows her his many sides, it is essential that she not set herself up as his judge and base her opinions of him on whether he is acting like “SuperMale” or not at any given second of the day. The truth is that he is SuperMale all the time because he now commands her, not because he has to keep proving himself to her over and over again. She may have initially agreed to serve him because of the greatness and breadth of his ideas, the largeness of his spirit, his keen intelligence, his powerful presence, broad experience, compelling charisma, or other qualities that really impressed her. She desired him to favor her with his attention, she desired to be one he picked to serve and follow him. Once that sacred pact is entered into, it is essential for a humbled female not to lose her perception of the man’s godlike relation to herself. What he does after she becomes his is his business and his only, not hers to critique or change. (There is one exception to this. Opinions vary, but it is my belief that a humbled female need not remain loyal to a male who no longer dominates her because the core reason she started the relationship with him has been removed, or, to put it another way, the sacred pact has been broken.)

A humbled female isn’t one of those shallow “conditional” submissives, the type who only submits to a man who keeps impressing and entertaining her day after day, who never lets his hair (or his guard) down, who is always perfectly dressed, well-spoken, and acting like the romantic lead character in a cheesy BDSM romance novel, no matter how bad of a day he is actually having. She doesn’t stop submitting because he firmly tells her “no” over something, even if it’s something she really wants. The women who do this are submitting to a fantasy, not to a real human being. They prefer the pleasant perfect illusion over the reality because they are, at core, still egotistical, childish dreamers who are incapable of submitting fully to a real human being. They may imagine themselves so great or so wonderful that no man they submit to will ever be less than perfect. Once a man starts to reveal his grounded reality, his humanity, they disappointedly go in chase of the next romantic masterly phantom.

A humbled female avoids judging the man she serves because she is well aware of her tendency to confuse her fantasies and illusions about what the perfect dominant male is with reality. She understands the role that silly romance novels in all their thin guises (BDSM, vampire, demonic, magical) have had in influencing her ideas about how the perfect male looks or acts. As the religious website said in one article, the romance novels women read tend to paint the ideal man as both hyper-masculine and hyper-sensitive at the same time—in addition to his superhuman powers, dark mysterious good looks, and fabulous wealth, of course. It should not need to be said here that no real man is like the characters in those novels. But most submissive women still harbor secret fantasies that such men exist, and sometimes they even believe they have found him, due to the way they misinterpret how he presents himself: they see only what they want to see, not what is actually there.

Imagine how a woman who believes in the hyper-masculine-yet-hyper-sensitive-to-her-needs myth feels when she is rambling on and on self-centeredly, as women are wont to do, about her issues, her problems, her activities, her needs, her desires… and then he suddenly tells her, out of the blue, to shut her mouth. There flies the hyper-sensitive part of her fantasy about him out the window. But real dominant men, although they may occasionally have some interest in a feminine narcissistic spiel (particularly if it is entertaining) or find a specific line of talk interesting because of what it tells them about how her mind works, are rarely interested in listening to frequent, long, self-obsessed soliloquys from a woman—whether spoken or written. A dominant man wants a woman to say things of relevance, things that interest him, and say them concisely. Talking about oneself has its place, but it is a much smaller place than most women are comfortable with. Thus, when some putatively submissive women are told to shut up they immediately start to judge the male as inferiorly dominant, simply because he will not pander to their rampant narcissism and self-absorption. That judgment actually means the opposite of what they imagine is true: it means they are facing a superior male specimen, a commanding man who knows exactly what he wants, and they are too weak (too self-indulgent and/or too self-impressed) to deal with him on his terms and serve him in the ways he wishes. Far too many women who claim to want a “master” in reality only want a rapt and adoring audience for their narcissistic displays.

It is critical that by the time she gets around to serving a man, a woman claiming to be humbled understands that she is no longer the judge of that man. The time for weighing and balancing comes before she submits fully to him. It’s now time for her to live up to her sacred commitment to serve and obey him. This means, in part, realizing that her acceptance of him as her ruler was not conditional and based on whether he puts on whatever performance she wants to see on a day-to-day basis but rather based on her decision that, overall, he was very well-suited to ruling her. After that decision and commitment has been made, it would seem to follow that her honor, respect, loyalty, and obedience would be based on the firm belief that, come good or bad, heaven or hell, he is now her ruler in all things and must be obeyed because that is his role in her life, a role she claimed she desperately needed a man to fill. It should not be based on whether he “talks the talk” that gives her the little tinglies between her legs, whether he makes her feel arrogantly proud that she has the most alpha male in the pack, whether he obediently plays out whatever role she approves of or feels most comfortable with, or any other self-centered, selfish desire. She obeys because he is now her lord and ruler, ideally for the remainder of her life. Before she became his, performance had to take precedence over position in order that she could choose wisely to serve a compatible man who could control her to the extent that she needed to be controlled. But once she’s given herself to him or allowed herself to be taken by him, then position—namely his position over her as her ruler, director, or controller—now takes precedence over anything specific he says or does. If it comes from him, then, ideally, no matter what it is, she views it as a sacred law that must be obeyed.

A humbled female never expects anyone to serve her; therefore she is never disappointed.

A typical “kinky” woman, particularly one who has been exposed to the confusing BDSM fetish scene, takes for granted that the man in her life, no matter how much she claims to believe in male supremacy or how extremely she is controlled, will always “be there for her.” This vague phrase, “being there,” means different things to different women, but central to all descriptions is the core assumption of male service to the female: his listening to her whenever she wants to speak, his taking her “needs” (even if they aren’t needs) into account at all times, his “providing” for her, his patiently giving her his time, resources, and attention no matter what sort of negative drama-queen acts she pulls. Even the best of women will sometimes assume that a man will automatically center his life and plans around her and what “works for her,” never step on her proclaimed weak areas, and always listen to her ideas and suggestions, ideally putting them into practice.

It’s hard to be a woman these days in our culture and not assume that, no matter how controlled or owned you are, your owner won’t also be giving you stuff and giving up stuff he might want for your sake. There’s something in women that makes them seekers of and collectors of resources. We tend to regard ourselves as extremely important and non-expendable: valuable objects that must be cared for, maintained, and preserved. This largely unconscious assumption could come from a woman’s role as a breeder. Human females may have inside them some sort of genetic self-protection algorithm that urges them on to get what they think they need from others, and particularly from a protective male, so that when they give birth to and raise children, there is a better chance they will all survive. Unfortunately, women these days carry that algorithm, if that is what it is, to an absurd level of narcissism and selfish “me-first” thinking. Everything in our current culture screams that the woman is far, far more important than the more-expendable man and men are lauded and praised for their selflessness and sacrifices to women.

To a truly humbled female, all that glorification of the female seems shockingly backward and utterly repulsive. She doesn’t want to make herself the center of the relationship around which a man revolves but rather have him be the glorious sun around which she revolves. And yet it is awfully hard at times, even for such women, to fight pernicious feminist conditioning that seems to be supporting this possibly genetically-based attitude that feels so “right” to us: the idea that we deserve special or better resources, attention, and treatment than a male. The types of special favors humbled females expect tend to be different (and also more hidden or subtle) than those of other women, but the common ground is that we still expect them. Part of a strong man’s role is to disillusion his female of these expectations, but she needs to be on board with that, not fighting him or feeling denied or deprived if she isn’t treated as a precious treasure that must be oh-so-carefully preserved. She needs first to understand how ugly and self-centered such an attitude is. Then she must be willing to find what forms this attitude takes in her own mind and behavior. Finally, ideally with the help of the man she serves, she can destroy these false and subversive expectations. By not ever expecting anyone to serve her in any way and, instead, by focusing on helping and serving others, a humbled female applies a very useful mental tool, a tool that can keep her sane, with her feet realistically planted on earth. With her vanity and self-regard on a tight leash, she can remain committed to her aspirations of real and useful service to a man.

That isn’t to say a woman shouldn’t speak out if she genuinely needs something or if it would help her. But what if you’re refused? Are you prepared to graciously accept “no” for an answer if that is what he tells you, even if you think you absolutely must have whatever it is you requested? Can you do so without harboring negative thoughts against him? Such negative thoughts represent pride and ego speaking: “I deserve this! Why doesn’t he give it to me? He’s so perverse, evil, uncaring, stupid! He doesn’t understand how I feel.” If a woman genuinely realizes that she is there to serve others, particularly her man, she does not chafe when denied something, even something she thinks she absolutely needs. She trusts her man’s decision to deny her things when or if he wishes, and quietly accepts his will, just as any adult who has made a mature commitment to follow orders would. When a woman is a true giver and fully focused on giving, then what she receives or does not receive stops mattering so much to her. It’s just par for the course: she knows that all of life has its ups and its downs and a relationship of service is no different. A humbled female acknowledges and honors her man’s every decision, even if it momentarily disappoints her, and moves on, letting the chips fall where they will. And quite often she will find that such chips were imaginary to begin with.

  1. alana says:

    I dont relate to all of what you say. It reminds me of the religious belief that everyone is innately proud and innately evil. They label women that way because of Eve and Original Sin. You label them that way because of genetics. Some i can relate to but not most. I’m a woman, but just not like what you describe.

    1)You said “…women these days carry that algorithm, if that is what it is, to an absurd level of narcissism and selfish “me-first” thinking.”
    I dont like to get things from men and haven’t ever tried to. I think of such women a “little princesses” but i never was one.

    2)You said “… But once a humbled female has agreed to be his and his alone, and particularly once she starts to live intimately with him… it is essential that she not set herself up as his judge and base her opinions of him on whether he is acting like “SuperMale” or not at any given second of the day…..”
    I never thought that at all about my man–i knew him for a number of years before we married and knew he had strengths and weaknesses like anyone else.

    3)You said “…Once that sacred pact is entered into, it is essential for a humbled female not to lose her perception of the man’s godlike relation to herself…” I dont have this religious fervor about it. I know that sometimes he tells me to do something i disagree with and even if i know im right, i do it because i have chosen to obey him . Not because of him being godlike though. Just because i am submissive and believe in the man as being the rightful head of the household.

    4)You said “… But real dominant men…are rarely interested in listening to frequent, long, self-obsessed soliloquys from a woman—whether spoken or written. A dominant man wants a woman to say things of relevance, things that interest him, and say them concisely…”
    I dont talk very much about myself because its rude and boring. I agree with you though that there’s some women who do and who blog about EVERY minute of their day & every thought that comes into their hea–blah blah blah,,like it was fascinating.
    You describe a type of woman but its not me or most of the ones i know.

    That said, i did like the part of your article about taking things for granted. We all do this (BTho imo it’s human nature, not a sign of narcissism ) When my hoh takes away something, like computer time at night, it can be very irksome but overall it makes me happy because such discipline is good for me and i experience it as caring. I find it is useful to call these “rights” privileges like i dont have a ‘right’ to drive. Its a privilege & if i speed, my hoh can take away my keys. I also find that making a gratitude list of everything i have to be grateful for goes a long way to reducing feelings of resentment when i’m being punished for abusing my privileges.
    lana

  2. unfree says:

    This line: “A humbled female never expects anyone to serve her; therefore she is never disappointed,” is what really sticks out to me. Thats a huge point of fail in many so-called submissive women in my opinion. Never taking anything for granted is something that usually requires a lot of awareness in all humans, but particularly in women. For many women, life is pretty freakin’ simple because of men and male interest. There’s a lot of women who will read what I just said there and get their knickers in a twist…they’ll go on with some laundry list of complaints about their horrible lives as oppressed women. Thing is, thats the point… they are blind to the ways in which life is EASY for them simply because they have vaginas. Have them live as men for a week and they’d quickly find out how much special attention we get as females that males brush off and carry on in life without.

    Never hurts for women to reflect on things like that… on things that they might (more like do) take for granted. It is a lifelong practice to reflect like this for every one of us I think.

  3. alana says:

    @unfree
    I dont mind the author’s idea of feeling gratitude for what we have and also the idea of not blaming men for every problem in a woman’s life. i just dont like the implication that most women are greedy and narcissistic and manipulating.

    Not all of us were raised as little princesses with the silver spoon in our mouths and “Daddy gives me everything.” ethic. I get it that this is one type of woman, but i dont agree that the majority of us (humbled women) here are like that or ever were.

    What i objected to in the article was the preachy, “repent-all-you-sinners” undertone of it. (Which Im pretty sure was not intended by the author but came across to me that way.) That’s the one part of Christian dd groups that i dislike –being preached at by women who compete with each other over who can quote the most scriptures and who is the most submissive.
    lana

  4. holly1 says:

    Thank you, Nina. Very insightful. Your three main points are things we can (or i can) remind ourselves/ myself of often. They seem like simple things, but they are really not.

  5. unfree says:

    @alana:

    ” i just dont like the implication that most women are greedy and narcissistic and manipulating.”

    Hrmm. Are you just not looking around lately? There’s plenty of girls fitting that exact description. Its not an implication… it is unfortunately a fact today that many women have these sorts of personality ‘features’.

    ” I get it that this is one type of woman, but i dont agree that the majority of us (humbled women) here are like that or ever were.’

    You are mixing things up a little here! I don’t think the article is talking about humbled females that way it is defined on this site. It is talking about the posers and the game players. God knows there’s plenty of ‘slaves’ who could benefit reading this article.

  6. alana says:

    @unfree “….I don’t think the article is talking about humbled females that way it is defined on this site. It is talking about the posers and the game players. God knows there’s plenty of ‘slaves’ who could benefit reading this article.”

    Ok i see what you mean. i dont know any of these bdsm ‘slaves’ other than what Ive read on Collarme.com. Judging by how they answer the forum questions, some of them there seem to me to be more dominant & competitive in nature than submissive.
    As to whether women in general are “greedy, narcissistic and manipulative”, i’m not certain. Some are for sure.

  7. Nina E. says:

    Hello Alana,

    I see you take exception to my article. That’s fine, and I’ll address your complaints in a minute, but you’ve got me curious about something. Ever since you’ve joined this website it seems you’ve been attacking its most basic premises, the things that women here like myself find most sacred and important. You frequently criticize and question the female slaves in the forums for their attitudes and practices.

    If you disagree so much with the core principles of this site, then could you please explain to me what you are doing here?

    Absolutely nobody is forcing you to read the articles here, but you are reading them and then complaining about what you see. If you don’t like what is said here, if this place doesn’t fit you…seriously…why stick around?

    “1)You said “…women these days carry that algorithm, if that is what it is, to an absurd level of narcissism and selfish “me-first” thinking.”
    I dont like to get things from men and haven’t ever tried to. I think of such women a “little princesses” but i never was one.”

    That’s perfectly fine, but why did that make you all grumpy about my article? Usually when people read a description about something that is NOT themselves, they just shrug and pass it by, they forget about it, because it doesn’t apply to them and they know it. But when you get annoyed or upset because someone describes a person who is purportedly not you, that usually means that something about that description struck home, made you a little uncomfortable. I am wondering if you personally related to something that was spoken very generally and not aimed at you, Alana. What do you think?

    “2)You said “… But once a humbled female has agreed to be his and his alone, and particularly once she starts to live intimately with him… it is essential that she not set herself up as his judge and base her opinions of him on whether he is acting like “SuperMale” or not at any given second of the day…..”
    I never thought that at all about my man–i knew him for a number of years before we married and knew he had strengths and weaknesses like anyone else.”

    Ok. Once again, nobody ever said _you_ did. But plenty of “submissive” (cough) women DO do think this way, and in spades. They really do. I have been around and have met dozens of these “lovely specimens” over the last 25 years. The fact that you are taking this personally is a warning sign, to me, Lana. It suggests to me that your mind trying to warn you that there’s something of relevance here for you–otherwise none of this would bother you at all. You’d yawn and go, “Well I suppose that could be interesting to someone somewhere, but it sure doesn’t relate to my life.” But instead of doing that you’re getting a little hot under the collar.

    I didn’t write this article with the intention of pushing anyone’s buttons. I just thought the three pieces of wisdom from that website were awesome and wonderful things to follow, so I thought about them and expanded on my thoughts. They really helped me and I wanted to share my positive realizations with others! :-) I see that you clearly care very much about the contents of this article because you have had this reaction. But honestly, I wasn’t pointing fingers. If you feel defensive at all… well, that might mean you are pointing a finger at yourself.

    “3)You said “…Once that sacred pact is entered into, it is essential for a humbled female not to lose her perception of the man’s godlike relation to herself…” I dont have this religious fervor about it. I know that sometimes he tells me to do something i disagree with and even if i know im right, i do it because i have chosen to obey him . Not because of him being godlike though. Just because i am submissive and believe in the man as being the rightful head of the household. ”

    That’s fine that you don’t have this religious fervor about it, nothing horrible will happen if you don’t feel it, but _I_ do feel this way and a lot of the really deep female slaves that I talk to also feel this way. Are we not allowed to have our feelings of worship and loving devotion toward our men simply because you don’t feel similarly? Are you complaining about the fact that other women feel something that is relevant to them–that you don’t feel? This site is, among other things, about and for women who love to worship their men.

    “4)You said “… But real dominant men…are rarely interested in listening to frequent, long, self-obsessed soliloquys from a woman—whether spoken or written. …
    You describe a type of woman but its not me or most of the ones i know.”

    That’s a wonderful thing that you aren’t that way, Alana. I am not that way either. But once again, you seem to be responding to this article in a defensive sort of way, as if I had written, “Alana is a big blabbermouth who bores her man.” But I didn’t say that. I simply described a sort of woman I am very, very familiar with. I go out with a big group of them for lunch sometimes, and none of them is you. These women talk to themselves that way at lunch, each oblivious to what the other is saying, each just going on and on and on about themselves, not hearing the others at all. They are perfectly nice women in other ways, but they are totally unaware that they just talk nonstop about “me me me” and they never really listen to each other although they pretend to. They never ask questions about what the others are saying, they don’t care what the others are saying, they just wait for their turn to pounce in and start talking. It’s a very creepy thing to experience if you listen carefully to what others say and ask them questions about it.

    “That said, i did like the part of your article about taking things for granted.”

    Well, I’m glad you liked something in the article! I felt like I was I was on a big losing streak there. ;-) I think the idea of a gratitude list is an excellent idea. I may start one of those myself. I, too, sometimes feel resentful or like it isn’t fair when I am punished for something and such a list would help bring back my perspective and remember how good I have things. Lana, I didn’t write that article so that women would read it and think I was accusing them of being all these negative things. I was, however, describing many real women that I have really known, over the years–although none of them that I know of are reading this website. That was a technique I was using to get across, by way of contrast, a very different way of thinking and acting; a kinder, softer, more open way that, for some women (like me) is much more constructive and useful than the typical vain, stuck up “I am Great Because I have the Vag” female Privilege and Power BS that we have to listen to on other sites even among so-called submissive women.

    Also, I want to stress that I am not saying all women are like the females I described in that article. Not by a long shot! But enough of them are that it makes me wonder if there is a genetic cause for it. If it _is_ genetic, it kind of absolves such women from blame, because this is something they cannot really help, particularly if they are unconscious of it.

  8. Brutal Antipathy says:

    “But enough of them are that it makes me wonder if there is a genetic cause for it. If it _is_ genetic, it kind of absolves such women from blame, because this is something they cannot really help, particularly if they are unconscious of it.”

    Kinda like the Authentic Texas Chili people who don’t seem to be aware that their minds are already made up even as they disguise their need for external validation in the form of advice seeking.

  9. alana says:

    Hi Nina
    First of all I do want to thank you for writing the article, Nina–you are a good writer. Id also like to answer some of the questions you posed to me.

    As for why i like this site: i feel that men should be the dominant ones in a relationship and this is the only site where such things are discussed in a literate fashion. Not all of us are the same–for example i am not a slave tho i am in a male dominated relationship. I think the viewers here who aren’t slaves gain a great deal of inspiration from those who are, which is why they like the site so much–at least i do.

    When i ask a question of a slave or a Master i always do so as to find more out about M/s relationships–never as a put down of them. I am sorry if that was the impression that you or any other person got. I do feel great camraderie here with what people have written to me. In fact my feeling is overwhelming admiration for something i aspire to but know i will never be. (co-mingled with some bafflement and fear– much like watching someone walking on a tightrope as Odin said : )

    As to your question about why i bothered to answer the things in the article if they do not pertain to me. Id say there were two reasons:
    Firstly, i do know some people do read things and then not respond to them, but when I dont agree with something stated in an article i will say so and thats no reflection on the person who wrote it. When i write i like to get feedback –pro and con. Some things i say will strike a bell with other women and some will not, so i dont expect all will respond to it the same. I know the first part of your article pertains to some women–just not to all of us.

    Secondly, at the time the first part of the article hit me like ‘preaching’ which i always have trouble handling due to past issues i have with it – even though i know it is well meant when people do it.

    I can think of a few traits that do seem to be overwhelmingly feminine which prolly do have their roots in human evolution –but that’s a while nother topic : ).
    lana

  10. onlyme says:

    For me there are two ways to look at the articles and comments on this site. One is to read, compare and critique strictly from the outside in, while carefully preserving the citadel of my own pre-conceived, likes, dislikes, approval and disapproval. The other is to try to read and see them, not always and exclusively from the point of view of how they relate to me and how I think I would feel about them, but from the point of view of what they clearly mean in terms of fulfilment and satisfaction to other people who don’t have my limitations.

    While I don’t pretend that I always succeed in this, I prefer to try and do the latter. That way I might actually learn something about how to attain the fulfilment that others feel. If I were entirely satisfied with the way things are and who and what I am as a person and I had no interest in understanding, changing or developing , I wouldn’t need or want to be here.

  11. intrigued says:

    @onlyme….Well said! I agree wholeheartedly, ma’am.

  12. kseekingwisdom says:

    I found the article inspiring. All three points are ones that it is good to be reminded of, and if I am not (I hope) guilty of the worst behaviors mentioned, I am very far from perfect in any of those areas, and it is good to be warned of the way I may begin to appear if some of my natural tendencies are unchecked. Of course I take things for granted every day, sometimes I talk too much, and even judge my Husband’s behavior on occasion.

    So I am glad to be reminded to be grateful, respectful, more interested in his day than my own, and more attentive to my behavior than his. Such reminders and inspiration are the reason I come here.

  13. Kargan3033 says:

    Well done ninap this article has given me more insight into the mind of a human female then I would have thought possible, you have a good writing style, you do your Man/Master credit for writing such well thought out and to the point articles.

  14. ushaben says:

    @ninap: Thank you such an interesting an insightful article. As i read it, i recognised so much that either applied to me before i my Owner took charge of me, and much that applies to me now. When i was a free woman, i too indulged in the sort of very selfish, manipulative strategies to try and get what i wanted from some of the men around me. i squirm with embarrassment and shame when i look back on it now. Certainly, the most destructive instrument in my arsenal was my tongue, which i used to wheedle, whine and hector, all too frequently; much of the time without giving much thought to the consequences of what i was saying. When my tongue did land me in trouble, i often used the sort of ‘feminine whiles’ you mention to divert the possible consequences away from me. One of the first, and to me one fo the most profoundly humbling, things my Owner did was take away my control of my voice. Ever since, i am only allowed to speak when acknowledges the gesture i make, which indicates my wish to do so. He has trained me that my voice is not something to be used indiscriminately, but only to be used very sparingly to serve His ends, not mine.

  15. bunny says:

    I found this article to be well written and well thought out.

    I especially enjoyed it because it was a reminder to me to not take things for granted as a submissive wife. I am the first person to admit that I am far from perfect and I sometimes fail miserably as a submissive. But gentle reminders such as remembering that no one serves me and it is my duty to serve them help me on this journey. I need to read articles like that to keep myself focused on others’ needs before mine.

  16. mils6226 says:

    I also found the article to be well written and sadly saw myself in it, I am a sub to a wonderful Master and we will be joining our household in 1 month up to this point its been long distance and weekend only relationship, so during the week as I do my job and control my world when I do see him my mind isn’t always there. finding this site and reading this article has shown me that although I am a sub I am far from the sub I want to be for him and I look forward to learning so much from all of you and this sight.

  17. Mishy says:

    I am an unowned submissive, and even though unowned, I found this article very insiteful! I also saw many of the things in the article with in myself. I do hope with some self observation and time I can control those things. Growing up in a female dominated household my submissive nature is not one that is nutured. So indeed I have to agree with the article. I hope some day to serve a Master and be able to bring him all the joy and comforts he deserves. Until then I will continue working on myself. Articles such as this is a great reminder of things all women can work on.

    With that said, I also agree with Alana the article did seem like it was on the preachy side. However, unlike Alana, I actually enjoyed that aspect of the article. While reading it I could just see this being used to give a talk or some thing on graditude. I love going to talks and descusions so this was actually a good aspect of the article to me.

    Thank you for writing it. I do hope your Master felt it was a wonderful piece. Because, it surely was one of my favorites on this sites.

  18. creature says:

    This article was very “convicting” as Christians might say. There’s much much more for me to “work on” than to feel proud of. I’m grateful for the opportunity to read other women’s perspectives, and learn how other females have brought their thinking (and speaking!) to its proper pace. Thank you for the illumination.
    ~S

  19. MaitreDeLeau says:

    Nina, you musn’t take exception to what “little sister”(alana) thinks, because just the fact that she takes the time to write it(as though anyone cares about her own individual outlook on your erudite and very personal, heartfelt insights) it’s evidence of her own self-involvement, and this alone(not including whether one agrees with her comments or not) says a lot about where she’s at and perhaps why she needs to be here on this site, (perhaps so she can straighten herself out).

    (as used here on this site)I don’t like the term “slave”, not because it offends my sensibilities(as the idea of real slavery indeed does), nor because of the historical and present-day association with repression and coercion(from pre-biblical times all the way to present-day nike factories in Asia, etc., etc.,), but simply because it connotes forced, involuntary service without remuneration or reward, and is therefore, for the VAST ( and hopefully entire) majority of the individuals concerned with this site, simply inaccurate; therefore, wouldn’t a more accurate term be “devotee”.

    my devotees get priceless rewards every day that they take it upon themselves to exist in my world, and no one’s forcing them to stay, or coercing them to perform/behave; rather, they know that they will have a one-way ticket out of my circle if they don’t toe the line.

    btw, MANY of the females here who talk about being slaves seem to be game-players in a fantasy-world of their own creation, not purists like Nina P., and I find this pathetic; and also regrettable that they’d even attempt to appropriate, but nominally so, the same moniker as she.

  20. Tempolton says:

    Many *coughs* ladys fit this paradine in our society… I believe it is up to men to be worthy of a woman and to THEN make sure… she REMAINS worthy of him. I DO NOT WANT A GODLIKE position in any relationship. However respect is for the man I am is my right! I did not enjoy the artical becuse it is so ACCURATELY describing such a large slice of the herd… coudos to you for writing such a poignant article! It sadens me that so many cannot acept that life is better when someone STEPS UP. simple. Straight forward.NATURAL.

  21. JuliusP says:

    This was an amazing post on so many levels but I’ll just comment on one. When you mentioned having your breakfast and morning supplements taken away and how you accepted it and went through your day without it; I found it so refreshing that you, for lack of a better phrase, “got it”. I felt that you really received, I don’t really want to call it a lesson, more so that you received the knowledge that you were taking something for granted and it made you better in some regards than you were before.

  22. lis says:

    I love this and find it helpful every time I come back to it.

    This;

    “If a woman genuinely realizes that she is there to serve others, particularly her man, she does not chafe when denied something, even something she thinks she absolutely needs. She trusts her man’s decision to deny her things when or if he wishes, and quietly accepts his will, just as any adult who has made a mature commitment to follow orders would.”

    Perfect for me right now. Thanks for a great article :)

  23. SnowDancer2 says:

    I absolutely love this article! Very well written. thank you for such beautiful insight!

  24. keigan says:

    Beautiful article – thank you.

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